ECC Format for 2007?

[Brian Lucas]

Ok,
First off, congratulations Ernie on your election! We will be in good hands and am looking forward to seeing some fresh ideas.

Second, I hosed up everyones postings on the tread for the ECC championship and would like to see those ideas reposted...my bad

Third, I am going to change the status for most members to moderators so you guys and have some more flexibility with the posts and remove anything that need to, but you have to fill out the member form for that to happen. Also, I think it would be best if a couple others have access to your clubs email.

If there is anything I need to do, please let me know.

[jerryweldin]

Test

[jerryweldin]

I will be brutally frank. The Double Round Robin Format is unmanageable. It takes too much time. We lost two players for six months because they couldn't commit to the playing schedule.
The tournament suffered as a result; in 2005 these two paladins scored a combined total of 3 points against the top two finishers. Additionally this year we had one withdrawal and one player who did not complete the playing schedule.

My proposed solution is to reduce the field to four players then have two Quads (essentially a four man double round robin ) to decide the Champion. The precidence for this not only exists in chess history but in other sports as well,ie if you don't make the cut you don't play that weekend with Tiger Woods on TV.

Here are two possible solutions:

1.> Hold a four round swiss (prefferably on a weekend) with a time limit of at least Game-60. The top three finishers and the top under 1400 would then play two quads with best scorer being crowned champion.

2.>Tie the Championship in with our 2nd Tuesday tournaments.
Award 3 points for !st Place, 2 points for 2nd place, 1 point for 3d place, and 2 points for best score under 1400. After the Nov 2nd Tuesday tournament talley the totals and the top 4 play for the title as above.

I lean toward #2 as it incourages monthly participation and prevents a ringer from showing up just for the Championship and then riding of into the sunset with our Club Championship Thropy.

Let's hear other ideas or discussion on the ones presented above. And we need to do this quickly as two monthly tournaments have already been played (in case suggestion #2 is adopted).

Jerry Weldin (64squares)

[steve]

I think that tying the championship to the Tuesday Tournaments is the way to go.

However, I don't see why we need a new scoring system. Make it easy and just use straight scores. For example, if you win three games and lose none you score 3 points, if you win 2 games and draw one you score 2.5 points, if you win 2 games and lose one you score 2 points and so forth. The four people with the greatest total at the end of the year play for the club championship. I think that will encourage more participation and be easier to track the scores.

I think to include everyone in the club championship maybe we could have 3 or 4 brackets with four people in each. This last part needs some work, but that is the basic idea.

[Brian Lucas]

I like tracking the point total by using the tourny results also.

[jerryweldin]

Hey! Great idea Steve. I agree with cumulative scoring to arrive at the final four. But....

I strongly oppose brackets. Why do we need them? EVERYONE is included in the Championship when they play in the Tuesday night Tournaments. Two players under 1300 scored 2 points each in the Feb Tournament.
64squares

[Ernie Weaver]

I like Steve's idea as it would definitely help with participation in Tuesday tournaments. This would balance participation and highest scores, so that our best players will be competing directly with each other resulting in a more intense competition. But maybe we would want to involve top 3 below 1400 for example, with top 3 players in the club so the championship will be more inclusive for everyone. What I would like to see is G/60 as Jerry suggested to allow for better games. I believe we really need to set a timetable for the tournament first and then go from there, because that's going to determine what time controls and format are feasible. What do you guys think?

[Brian Lucas]

Nice to see so many good ideas being proposed.

Maybe it would be possible to have the monthy tournaments qualify players for a "Candadites Tournament" with the top 4 players moving on to the "Championship Tournament". Monthly Tournaments are 25+5 then the Candadites time control increasing to 45+5 or so and the Championship time control being the 60+5. Swiss system tournaments would be quick and the Championship would end up basically as a round robin.

If everyone could come up with a consensus by the March rated, it would be possible to have 6 months of scoring (March-August) leaving the possibility of having the Canadites Tournament on played on the 3 weeks following the September rated and the Championship Tournament played on the 3 weeks following the October rated, leaving the holidays open and a few weeks buffer.

I realize that Jerry is correct in saying not everyone has a chance, but in a swiss system it is possible for long shots to make it into the next tourny and I think Cinderella stories are what make intesting events.

[carbug]

I think the format last year was fine, including the time controls and the two games against each opponent.

It just took too long.

Offer an Intermediate Section as we did in the Lou Tune-Up,
breaking near 1400 and allowing anyone to 'play-up'.

I imagine you will have two neat sections of about 6-8 players each, with the Champion winning the Open Section, and a trophy to the Intermediate Winner.

[steve]

I like Brian’s idea of a Candidate Tournament, because I see a problem with people that can not make it to every Tuesday tournament. However, that still makes it a six to nine week tournament (3 weeks for the candidate tournament and 6 weeks at G/60 and 3 weeks at G/45 for the round robin final four). We need it fair, shorter, and open to as many people in the club as possible.

What do you think of this?

Current Club Champion automatically in final four
Highest points on Tuesday tournaments automatically in final four

Next eight highest points total on Tuesday tournaments get seeded and play a single elimination tournament. Higher seed gets to pick color. G/45 all games in one night.

Round One

#1 Seed plays #8 Seed
#2 Seed plays #7 Seed
#3 Seed plays #6 Seed
#4 Seed plays #5 Seed

Round Two

Highest Seed plays Lowest Seed (Winner in final four)
Middle Seed plays Middle Seed (Winner in final four)

Final Four is round robin G/45 played in three weeks.

It includes 10 players and still rewards Tuesday Tournament play.

[Brian Lucas]

I like it Steve. If we can get a few more formats proposed everyone could comment on them and pin this down.
Just to be clear thou on my post.
The monthly tournaments would not stop.

The next 6 monthlies would qualify you for the Candidates Tourney (top 6 players, and 2 wild cards under 1400) and that would be a 3 round swiss at game 45 (one match per night (Rd 1 Sept 18, Rd 2 Sept 25, Rd 3 Oct 2).

The Top 3 players move on to the Championship match to meet last years winner for a 3 rd swiss, which is a single round robin. (Rd 1 Oct 16, Rd 2 Oct 23, Rd 3 Oct 30. There are 5 Tuesdays in Oct. and any tie breaks could be held then)

So not counting the monthly it would be 6 rounds total.

I like the idea of last years winner being seeded into the championship and maybe it would be possible to take a persons top 6 scores out of 7 months for qualifying so one absent will be built in.

Ernie, Steve and others have wanted to increase the participation in the monthly rated tournaments so including as many weeks as possible would be best. The 2008 championship could be based on 11/12 scores! I didn't renew my membership when it expired because the monthly was put on hold to finish the championship and I really didn't have another place to play, so not pausing those would be a plus.

[steve]

Even though we have not made a decision on the club championship format, I propose that we tie the club championship to the 2nd Tuesday tournaments starting with the March 13th tournament.

Each member's cumulative score for Tuesday tournaments from March through October will be used in some way to determine the club championship (Example: Top scores will get entrance in the club championship tournament or players will be seed according to the cumulative scores, etc).

If we can agree on that then we will have 6 months to determine the format the club will use.

[jerryweldin]

Steve,
At one of the meetings you missed Bob Kilmer advocated a two bracket, six month to complete, round robin. And it was pretty much decided that we would vote for a formate at the 13 March meeting.
As all perposals lead to a champion it was decided that we needed to act soon and implement some thing.
I agree that it should be tied to the 2nd Tuesday Tournament and I wouldn't even care if it was retoactive to January! Ha, Ha!

[steve]

I think this is what we decided on March 13th for the 2007 Club Championship. Correct me if I am wrong.

The First Part of the Club Championship will start after the April 14th Tax Evasion Open.

Games can be played any time except on second Tuesday tournament nights.

All Game 45 minutes

Time limit to complete First Part of Club Championship: ? ? ?

First Part: Single Round Robin (Everyone plays everyone once)
-Color determined by random USCF tournament chart.
-Top four scores moves on to second part of tournament.
-Tie breaker if necessary to determine 4th spot in club championship but scores of tie breaker will not count in overall club championship scoring.
-Each tied member will play every other tied member once in the tie break (alternating color from previous club championship game)
-First part will be USCF rated as a separate tournament from second part

Second Part: Top Four Scores Plays Round Robin
-Alternating color from previous club championship game
- Club Champion has highest cumulative score of parts 1 and 2
-Tie breaker if necessary.
-Each tied member will play every other tied member once in the tie break (alternating color from previous club championship game)

Does that sound correct? I’m not sure if we determined a date when games have to be completed in first part of the tournament, but we should.

[johnny]

The 2 parts need to be separate tournaments! Alternating colors won't work! A person can end up with all black pieces in the 2 part if he had white against all the qualifiers in the 1st part!

I think that we said the tournaments should be serarate and I don't agree with the cumulative scores of both parts being used unless it is for tiebreak!

Any comments!
Johnny